Google Maps provides several views of the temple's interior, this one https://tinyurl.com/y86mbq9l has nearly the same perspective as the painting. Even the incision in the left column of the entrance is still there!

Here are two paintings of the Temple of Hathor c.1838,
I question that the one with faces is really one of David Roberts' paintings. the other Image 2105 is in my book of Roberts paintings and so is authentic,

That appears to answer the 'what and where', but can the question be extended to who might have painted it (not Roberts)? Probably someone who did more similar....

I will throw in a suggestion of Walter Tynsdale; the attached contains a possible exhibition of the work and a possible account of painting it with illustration. The book mentioned only has one colour plate but the original book allegedly has 60 which might include this work if it was one of his.

Tyndale (no 's') is an interesting suggestion, Jen, and at first glance looks promising; however our work is an oil, and according to Christopher Wood, after taking up watercolours c.1890 Tyndale "never again used oils". Certainly all the Egyptian scenes that illustrate the two books you reference are in watercolour, and our painting (or even a w/c version of it) is not among them. The books (with all the plates, I think) can be viewed online here http://bit.ly/2Cf9tvT and here http://bit.ly/2AE8iZu . The great majority, too, are signed.

Yes, Christopher Wood's statement (in 'Victorian Painters') is confirmed by a piece about Tyndale in Vol 38 of 'The Studio' (#162 Sept 1906). In 1889 the artist moved to Haslemere (checked in Electoral Registers), and not long afterwards a misunderstanding with a painting pupil forced him to try watercolours for the first time. He postponed the classes, sought advice from a friend, and "the next day he invested in a new outfit, and with one exception has never touched oils since". See: http://bit.ly/2AZ3laJ

As Tyndale's Egyptian visits seem only to have begun in the mid or late 1890s, I think we have to rule him out.

I've no idea what that photo of Bendor and Emma Dabiri is doing at the bottom of my last post - I certainly didn't attach it (or anything else, as far as I remember).

Edward?

Must be a Christmas cracker from Art UK

Not sure what that was doing there, either! I've removed it now, Osmund.

This discussion is now linked to the British 19th C, except portraits group.

Is it certain this is an oil on canvas? Looking at it again, the surface has a very even texture and, though this may be due to the photo, seems to have little in the way of impasto. It has something of the appearance of a coloured print attached to canvas.

An enlarged view of the image suggests that this is thinly applied oil on board. The surface texture is perhaps clearer in the attached detail.

Thank you for that. It alays the suspicions I had.

I think we can confirm Al Brown's identification of the temple as the Hypostyle Hall of the Temple of Hathor at Dendera. I am afraid that in the absence of documentary evidence (labels, provenence, etc.) the artist is unlikely to be identified. It is not a particularly high quality painting and hundreds, if not thousands, of amateur artists visited Egypt from the 19th century.

Thank you all for your contributions. I am happy to recommend that we close this now as all evidence suggests that the Egyptian temple is the Hypostyle Hall of the Temple of Hathor at Dendera. Art UK, I agree with Andrew's comment that the artist is unlikely to be identified and unless anyone has any evidence to suggest otherwise if you are happy, the record can be updated with the aforementioned location without artist attribution.

I realise that this has been up for quite a while, but is it possible that it could stay up for a few days more please?
Thanks very much

Manto, thank you for posting this to the top of the list today. I'm sorry for the delay. I see that Andrew made his recommendation while I was ill with the virus and this is the first time I've seen it. I haven't caught up on everything that happened in those two months.

E. Jones, many thanks for offering more information. A few more days will be fine.

Hello Marion - I am very sorry to hear you were ill and delighted to learn that you are recovered and can resume work.

Thank you for agreeing to keep the discussion live for a few more days; I will monitor accordingly.

E.Jones, I echo Marion's comment, looking forward to hearing more soon.

As the subject has now been identified in the discussion as the Temple of Hathor (Dendera, Denderah or Tentyris), could it now be possible for the collection to be able to the source a reference/accession record using the new information?

Is it also possible that there could also be a slightly different avenue of research concerning this painting?

The Bolton Corporation established a museum of natural history called the ‘Chadwick Museum’ in the 1880’s.

The funding for it’s creation was donated in the 1870’s by a gentleman called Samuel Taylor Chadwick in his bequest to the authority. Due to an attached caveat, there was a strict time limit for the construction to be completed.

The museum, from very early on, had an association with the Egyptian Exploration Fund through it’s subscription scheme. The Curator William Midgley had a particular interest in ancient textiles and the collection was also supported by the efforts of Annie Barlow. Annie Barlow was the daughter of a local cotton mill owner who had a passion for Ancient Egypt. Ms Barlow was also the local secretary for the Egyptian Exploration Fund in Bolton. She also donated her share of her own subscription to the museum.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17410823.legacy-boltons-victorian-queen-egypt-annie-barlow/

The subscriptions with the EEF helped fund various excavations in Egypt. In return, they received a share of the artefacts. They received items as early as 1884. Through this process they gradually developed a significant collection of Egyptian artefacts.

Today, the museum has one of the largest collection of Egyptian artefacts in public ownership in Britain. There is over 12,000 pieces.

The records of the EEF, list the Chadwick museum as having received items from Dendera, including Hathor heads from a variety of locations. There are also decades worth of letters in the records of the EEF between the Curators of the Bolton Museum and Flinders Petrie.

https://www.boltonlams.co.uk/boltonlams/homepage/21/results?keywords=hathor&category_id=10

The attached floorplan of the Temple is from 1902 and I think that the painting may be the entranceway of the Temple in the ‘Pronaos’ area rather than the inner ‘Hypostyle hall’, although many of the more current floorplans seem to reference that area as the ‘Outer Hypostyle Hall’.

*Is there anything on the back of this painting?

*Could the painting have been separated from the Egyptian collection, when both collections were merged due to the planned demolition in the 1950’s of ‘The Chadwick?

*Do the museum have a record as to the items that that were moved from ‘The Chadwick’?

*When was the entrance in the Portico bricked up?
and when was it re-opened?
The entranceway appears to be shown in paintings, prints and photographs of the early 1800’s to being fully accessible before being bricked up and the exterior level raised, hiding the majority of the outer walls. This, I think is the brickwork that is visible on the left in the painting.

*Could it be that this painting was not a piece of work that was meant to be a judged for it’s aesthetic merits, rather than it’s illustrative or educational qualities?
The main focus of the the piece appears not to be the technique, but the temple. Perhaps it was ultimately used for these qualities in support of the collection?

*Are there any more illustrations/paintings of Egyptian subjects within the Egyptian collection at Bolton Museum?

I believe this to be a painting by pre-Raphaelite painter John Collier (1850-1934).

An touring exhibition of Collier's work was held at the Mere Hall Art Gallery in Bolton in the 1920s. After this exhibition the curators of the Chadwick Museum purchased a 'painting by John Collier of the entrance to the Temple of Hathor at Dendera to compliment the displays of Egyptology in the museum'.... I need to check this exactly date-wise when i can get access to the museum's archive again.

After the same touring exhibition, Oldham Art Gallery purchased the large painting of the Death of Cleopatra.

If anyone were able to confirm that this could be by Collier's hand i'd be very interested to hear.

Ian Trumble
Curator of Egyptology
Bolton Library and Museum Services

The Hon. John Collier certainly seems possible (though he was of a later generation than the Pre-Raphaelites). Here is his 'Theban Hills from Luxor', dated 1920:

https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/theban-hills-from-luxor-35232/search/makers:john-collier-18501934/page/5

According to ArtUK, his 'Death of Cleopatra' was purchased by Oldham in 1891.

Collier's Wiki entry notes an interesting comment by the late Geoffrey Ashton (who catalogued the Garrick Club collection among other things) about Collier's notably flat use of paint and invisible brush strokes, which might apply here. Though primarily a painter of portraits and historical figure pieces he was not slavishly so: if the 'Theban Hills from Luxor' was not known to be by him he would not be first guess for it, which also applies in the present case, but he seems to have been there which is promising. He was also taught at the Slade by Poynter (who did some notable Egyptian architectural pieces) and influenced by Alma-Tadema, to whom his father introduced him, so having a stab at Dendera would not be that much of a surprise. Though often very colourful, he was also good at tonal work - which is rather the case here - often in the greys, ochres and browns. The only portrait of his I've seen a lot of, and which demonstrates the point, is that of Sir George Biddell Airy, 7th Astronomer Royal (dressed in his old warm observing coat):

https://www.artuk.org/discover/artworks/sir-george-biddell-airy-18011892-173309/view_as/grid/search/works:sir-george-biddell-airy-18011892/page/1

That apart, I fear the proof here is more likely to be in whatever documentation can be found: similar Egyptian architecture studies by him don't seem to have obviously hit the web, at least.

I have asked the collection for their help in answering the new questions posed on the discussion. Our contact is out of the office until next week.

Elin, I have followed up again with the Collection on your questions at the same time as working with them on a summary of submissions. They were busy with reopening displays over the Summer, hopefully now an easier period. David

That’s great, thanks David.

Did the collection ever get back somehow?

I have asked whether the collection could try to help with these questions now.

Many thanks to Marion for getting in touch with us, and to Elin for the questions. Here is some answers i am able to offer:


*Is there anything on the back of this painting?

There is sadly nothing on the back of this painting, which is an oil on board, not on canvas.


*Could the painting have been separated from the Egyptian collection, when both collections were merged due to the planned demolition in the 1950’s of ‘The Chadwick?

The painting was indeed separated from the Egyptian Collection, presumably around that point. The art collection moved to the new museum in the 1950s, but the Egyptian collection didn't move there until the 1960s.


*Do the museum have a record as to the items that that were moved from ‘The Chadwick’?

Sadly we don't have a list of specific objects that were moved. We have our accession register for the items that were in the Chadwick, and we can cross reference this with what is in the museum collections now.


*When was the entrance in the Portico bricked up?
and when was it re-opened?
The entranceway appears to be shown in paintings, prints and photographs of the early 1800’s to being fully accessible before being bricked up and the exterior level raised, hiding the majority of the outer walls. This, I think is the brickwork that is visible on the left in the painting.

The exterior, and some of the interior, of the Hathor Temple Pronaos were covered by a Greco-Roman settlement that abutted the temple. This is part of the mud-brickwork that can be seen on the painting. The town was excavated and removed from the 1840s to the 1920s. Looking at various photographs and images, the view in this painting would date to about 1900-1930. I don't have a reference to the exact date the final mud bricks were removed from the entrance, just that the clearance was completed by 1930.
Collier died in 1934, and i'm unsure whether or not he actually visited Egypt, but given this painting was painted prior to the exhibition at Mere Hall Art Gallery in the 1920s, this would support the 1900-1920 timeframe for this view.


*Could it be that this painting was not a piece of work that was meant to be a judged for it’s aesthetic merits, rather than it’s illustrative or educational qualities?
The main focus of the the piece appears not to be the technique, but the temple. Perhaps it was ultimately used for these qualities in support of the collection?

Exactly right Elin. Thomas Midgley purchased the painting from Collier in the 1920's specifically to illustrate the site at Dendera, and the collection of Hathor material, that was excavated by the Egypt Exploration Society in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. I have found a report to the council in which Midgley states this is the reason for purchase. However, the painting was not commissioned for educational display, and was actually part of a temporary exhibition of Collier's work, so any debate over the aesthetic and artistic qualities, I think, are subjective.


*Are there any more illustrations/paintings of Egyptian subjects within the Egyptian collection at Bolton Museum?

There are several paintings and prints in the collection. I don't currently have access to our digital database, but i can supply a list at a later date if anyone is interested.


I hope this is helpful to Elin and others that are interested in this painting.

Best wishes,
Ian


Ian Trumble
Curator of Archaeology, Egyptology and World Cultures
Bolton Library and Museum Services

The last few postings (starting from S. Elin Jones, 10/02/2021 15:38) seem to resolve this matter, suggesting that a suitably revised title would be 'The entrance portico to the Temple of Hathor at Dendera, Upper Egypt' and the artist confirmed as the Hon. John Collier, 1850-1934.

Given that a dated 1920 view by Collier of the Theban hills has also been spotted, other circumstances cited above indicate a date bracket of c.1900-1920 - unless anyone can be more specific on when he visited Egypt.

Collier visited Egypt at least twice, in c.1889 and in 1920, and certainly painted in Upper Egypt during the first one.

In the spring/summer of 1890 he exhibited a huge work, ‘The Death of Cleopatra’ (https://tinyurl.com/kk3rvbx2), at the RA, and according to a 1903 interview with him in The Sketch, “before painting it, he went to Egypt to make studies, the chief of which were done in the great temple at Philae”; and other details were said to derive from the Temple at Dendera. I’m attaching the full article - though most of it is not strictly relevant to our purpose, it’s all quite interesting. It seems quite likely that the trip up the Nile followed on from a visit with his (second) wife to Venice in April 1889, soon after they were married – late C19th Bradshaw’s guides show there was a fast and frequent steamship service from Venice to Alexandria via Trieste, and I imagine many tourists with sufficient time and money made combined tours of the two countries.

As well as using the studies to provide more authentic background detail, it’s clear from press reports of exhibitions (two attached, from 1915 & 1923) that Collier worked some of them up into finished landscape paintings in subsequent years. It’s possible, therefore, that both our painting and the 1920 view of the Theban Hills from Luxor were based on those much earlier sketches. However, I did find brief mention (attached) of a further possible trip to Egypt with his wife in early 1920, though it could have been just a brief stop-off on the way back from somewhere further afield (the report is unclear). And of course there’s nothing to say that in the 30 intervening years there wasn’t another painting trip there that went unreported.

Thanks for digging out those details Osmund: good to see the contemporary comment about him too. Perhaps it will be better for Ian at Bolton to confirm whether he thinks 'c.1900 - c.1920' or 'c.1890-c.1920' is preferable dating for the picture, based on what is known of the state of the site.

Thanks to all, especially S. Elin Jones, Ian Trumble and Osmund for making a convincing case for this being by John Collier (1850-1934) and probably the painting purchased by the Chadwick Museum in the 1920s and later transferred to Bolton. Peter's title suggestion of 'The entrance portico to the Temple of Hathor at Dendera, Upper Egypt' is perfect, and we can propose a date of c.1900-20, unless more precise information is forhcoming from Ian Trumble.

The 1923 Sheffield exhibition seems to have been one of many venues that hosted what must have been a travelling exhibition of Collier's work "lent by the artist, the National Gallery, and others" in 1921-25. The National Art Library has catalogues for two more of those - Sunderland in 1921-22 & Cheltenham 1924 - and also for the show of his landscapes at the Leicester Galleries (Ernest Brown & Phillips) in July 1915.

I should be able to get to the NAL this week: is it worth delaying closure in case comparable Upper Egypt works are mentioned...or even, conceivably, our work?

EDIT: Sorry, I'm being dense. I've just realised that Ian Trumble mentioned the "touring exhibition of Collier's work" that was held at the Mere Hall Art Gallery in Bolton in the 1920s (from which Thomas Midgley purchased the work), and that was obviously another of the dates on the same tour as those at Sheffield, Sunderland and Cheltenham. There were numerous other venues, too, though I can't at the moment see in the BNA mention of one at Bolton - the nearest are Rochdale and Bootle.

Nevertheless, the Sunderland & Cheltenham catalogues should presumably have much same content as the others, and are well worth a look while Ian is unable to access the Bolton Museum archives.

Osmund, thank you for offering to check those catalogues before we close the discussion.